AuthorHouse (2010)
ISBN 9781456710033                
Reviewed by Richard R. Blake for Reader Views (09/10)

Today, Tyler R. Tichelaar of Reader Views is pleased to interview Ted Cohen, who is here to talk about his latest book, the final installment in his Antarctic Murders Trilogy, titled “End Game: Irrational Acts, Tragic Consequences.”

Theodore J. Cohen, PhD, holds three degrees in the physical sciences from the University of Wisconsin–Madison and has been an engineer and scientist for more than 40 years. From December 1961 through early March 1962, he participated in the 16th Chilean Expedition to the Antarctic. The U.S. Board of Geographic Names in October, 1964, named the geographical feature Cohen Islands, located at 63° 18' S. latitude, 57° 53' W. longitude in the Cape Legoupil area, Antarctica, in his honor. “End Game: Irrational Acts, Tragic Consequences,” is the final book (Book III) in the Antarctic Murders Trilogy describing what happened following the robbery of the Banco Central de Chile in Talcahuano in May, 1960. The robbery and what happened thereafter, primarily the events that took place between May 1960 and March 1962, are described in “Frozen in Time: Murder at the Bottom of the World” (Book I). “Unfinished Business: Pursuit of an Antarctic Killer” (Book II) reveals the events that unfolded between March 1962 and March 1965. Dr. Cohen has published more than 350 papers, articles, columns, essays, and interviews, and is a co-author of “The NEW Shortwave Propagation Handbook” (from CQ Communications). His first novel, “Full Circle: A Dream Denied, A Vision Fulfilled,” which is based on his life as a violinist, was published by AuthorHouse in 2009. Dr. Cohen is a violinist in the Bryn Athyn (PA) Orchestra and particularly enjoys the music of Gustav Mahler. His fourth novel, “Death by Wall Street: Rampage of the Bulls,” is a murder mystery, and it, too, was published by AuthorHouse in 2010.

Tyler: Welcome back, Ted. It hasn’t been that long since we talked about the first two books in your Antarctic Murders Trilogy, but I’m sure readers are anxious to get the third book in their hands. Readers, of course, can go back and read our interviews for your first two books here at Reader Views’ website:

http://www.readerviews.com/ReviewCohenFrozenInTime.html

http://www.readerviews.com/ReviewCohenUnfinishedBusiness.html

That said, would you mind taking a moment to tell us just the basic premise of what happened in the first two books and where “End Game” then begins?

Ted: Hi, Tyler. It’s nice to see you again, as well. The basic premise of the first book is that two Chilean Navy non-commissioned officers rob a branch of the Central Bank of Chile following the Great Chilean Earthquake of 1960. They hide the spoils in a crate that is shipped to the Antarctic as part of the 16th Chilean Expedition to the Frozen Continent. The non-coms intend to retrieve the cash, negotiable securities, gold, and jewelry they have stolen when the Expedition returns to Chile. For reasons explained in “Frozen in Time,” they never are able to do so. Instead, as discussed in the second book, “Unfinished Business,” the spoils disappear when the crate is returned to Chile. As well, a number of murders occur in the town where the crate has been stored. This results in two investigators―Captain Mateo Valderas and Commander Del Río―from the Chilean Navy’s Office of Internal Affairs being sent to the town to investigate. They find that the murders and the earlier bank robbery appear to be linked. Now, they have a significantly more complex case to solve than had been anticipated. At the center of everything is Captain Roberto Muñoz of the Chilean auxiliary fleet tug Lientur. A lack of hard evidence prevents the two investigators from pinning either the robbery or the murders on Muñoz. However, the return of an American scientist―Ted Stone―to Santiago some years after the 16th Chilean Expedition may provide an opportunity for Captain Valderas to close the case because of information Stone possesses . . . information Stone acquired during the 16th Chilean Expedition when he worked on a Chilean Army base in the Antarctic as a geologist’s assistant. Now the question is: Will whoever is behind the bank robbery and murders allow Stone to live long enough upon his return to Chile for him to speak with Captain Valderas and sign his testimony?

Tyler: Of course, I have to ask whether people can read “End Game” without having read the first two books in the series, “Frozen in Time” and “Unfinished Business”?

Ted: I think people would be doing themselves a disservice if they read the books out of order. I’m reminded of my first encounter with Patrick O’Brian’s books about the British Navy during the Napoleonic Wars.

Tyler: Those are the so-called “Aubrey-Maturin” series, right?

Ted: Correct! The 2003 film “Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World”was adapted from two of his books. In any event, I had found Numbers 3, 5, 9, and 13 on the shelf of a shop in Boca Raton, Florida, and had just pulled them down when I heard a voice behind me say: “Don’t you dare read those out of order!” Well, I turned around to see this short, elderly woman shaking her finger at me. She was serious! “If you read them out of order, sonny, you are going to be very sorry because you won’t understand a lot of things you’ll need to know as you move through the series.”

Tyler: So, what did you do?

Ted: I bought the books I found on the shelf, and then, when I got home, I ordered Numbers 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, and 8. When I received them, I set about reading the books in order. Later, I ordered what I was missing, through Number 12. I recall stopping at 13, but only because I was overwhelmed with work. But in the case of the Antarctic Murders Trilogy, there only are three books, so I really urge my readers to go through them in order. I can promise they will not be disappointed.

Tyler: The books are based on a Chilean Expedition you actually were on and you present a fictionalized version of yourself in the book. Can you tell us a little about what you fictionalized and what is based upon actual events?

Ted: [Laughing] Oh, gosh…that’s the second-most asked question readers send my way.

Tyler: What’s the first?

Ted: What will you be working on next? I tell you, readers have an insatiable appetite! [Laughter]

Tyler: So . . . truth or fiction, what’s what?

Ted: As far as the Trilogy goes, there was no robbery, there were no murders, there was no crevasse in which the real Ted Stone (Ted Cohen) was trapped and into which Lieutenant-Commander Cristian Barbudo fell to his death, and all of the characters, with the exception of the four American scientists, were fictionalized (though the four American scientists are known by other names in the novel). That said, everything else was real: the wild evenings in Santiago, the house of prostitution in Punta Arenas, the chess games, the hurricanes, the calving of the Continental Glacier, the times the real persons known in the book as Ted Stone and Grant Morris almost lost their lives at sea, the scientific field trips . . . basically everything pertaining to the actual 16th Chilean Expedition to the Antarctic. As is the case with all of my novels, readers can believe everything contained in the footnotes. You can get a taste of the dangers we face in real life by viewing the book trailer I commissioned for “Frozen in Time”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN-7DeMiu3A&feature

I will tell you this, Tyler. If I knew then what I know now regarding the orcas and leopard seals that were plying the waters in which we were blithely paddling around in our small rubber Zodiac, I’m not sure I would have ventured too far from the base!

Tyler: Ted, while you may not have been aware of all the potential dangers, I’m sure being in the Antarctic is fraught with danger. Since few if any of our readers have been to the Antarctic, will you tell us a little about how it affected you psychologically or emotionally, what perhaps you feared (since there weren’t any fictional killers after you), and if those memories came back and influenced your writing of the Trilogy?

Ted: Well, I was pretty young at the time . . . 22 years old, to be exact. I knew this was going to be the adventure of a lifetime, and I looked forward to every minute of the trip. In truth, the very worst part of the journey was the homesickness I felt when we reached Lima. There was one day that I really felt bad, but once I got by that, I was fine. And from then on, nothing bothered me . . . not the hurricanes at sea, the calving of the glaciers, the close calls in those small launches at sea. Nothing. I knew the environment was fraught with danger, but that’s life in the Antarctic. I wanted to experience everything I possibly could to the fullest. This isn’t to say we took risks. On the contrary, we took every precaution to ensure our lives were not purposely endangered. But still, life in the Antarctic isn’t exactly a “cake walk.” I kept a very detailed diary, by the way, and it was invaluable in writing “Frozen in Time.” The second and third books of the Trilogy, however, are mostly fiction.

Tyler: Ted, what if any challenges did you feel you had in fictionalizing the story?

Ted: I think the challenges I faced were the same ones every author faces in writing a novel: breathing life into his or her characters. How does one make them believable? Some characters presented more of a problem than others. Of them all, Captain Muñoz was the most difficult to develop. And guessing what will be your next question, I’ll delay my discussion of the captain for a moment while I discuss some of the other characters in the Trilogy. I don’t think I’m too different from most writers of fiction when I say that I take a little snippet of me or someone I know, embed this “embryonic piece of flesh” in the outline of a character, and then nurture and help it grow into a fully developed human being. For example, in Book II, readers are introduced to Lieutenant-Commander Antonio Del Río and his wife Emilia. Here, I basically used my wife, Susan, and myself as prototype characters. Of course, “Ted Stone” also is Ted Cohen, as is explained in the Preface, so those were relatively easy characters to “flesh out”:

“With the exception of the author and his wife, who appear under the names Ted and Susan Stone, and the characters known as Professor Ethan O’Mhaille, PhD, Grant Morris, PhD, and David Green, PhD—who are real persons but who are known by these names in this novel—the characters are fictitious. Any resemblance they may have to persons living or dead is purely coincidental. For my family, the name ‘Stone’ has been substituted for ‘Cohen’ to acknowledge the fact that considerable license has been taken in telling the tale.”

But other characters, as well, have traits taken from family and friends as well as men and women I met during the 16th Chilean Expedition and the trip from Madison, Wisconsin, to Punta Areas, Chile, the jumping off point for the Expedition. To be more specific, the US Air Force officer I met in Punta Arenas and with whom I played chess, was a real person, though I didn’t use his real name in the novel. Similarly, Lieutenant-Commander Cristian Barbudo was a real person―and one helluva chess player, as well―though again, that was not his real name.

Tyler: Captain Muñoz, the villain, is back in this book. What do you feel makes him an effective villain who will appeal to readers?

Ted: Actually, the Trilogy has many villains, which is but one facet of a post-modern novel. In addition to Captain Muñoz, you also have Chief Warrant Officer Raul Lucero and Chief Petty Officer Eduardo Bellolio. I challenge my readers to find others. But let’s talk about Captain Muñoz, who certainly stands head and shoulders above the rest. He’s a good example, at least to my mind, of a character that evolved rapidly during the writing of “Frozen in Time.” He had to. When I wrote the first few drafts of what eventually became Book I of the Antarctic Murders Trilogy (recall, that “Frozen in Time” originally was written as a stand-alone post-modern novel . . . if my daughters hadn’t been such pests, wanting to know what happened at the end, there never would have been Books II and III! [Laughter]), the captain was not the villain you suspected he might be at the end of Book I and knew he was, without a doubt, in the first two sentences of “Unfinished Business.” As I originally created Muñoz, he was a strong individual, but not the villain I needed. The novel lacked “punch.” As he was originally drawn, I couldn’t project the conflicts with which I wanted to leave the reader when the book ended. Put another way, I needed to make the character of Muñoz more complex so that the reader was left with more questions than answers when he read the postcard Ted Stone received from Lieutenant-Commander Barbudo’s widow. The “early” Muñoz just didn’t help me achieve my vision for where I wanted to take the story. And so, over time, the character evolved until he is what you see today . . . a very complex, conflicted, villainous, but nevertheless capable, dare I say, heroic, ship captain. I truly believe I have achieved what I set out to do based on a comment made by one of Kirkus Discoveries’ reviewers, who wrote this about “Unfinished Business”:

“Where Cohen fully succeeds is in drawing the complexity of Muñoz’s character. The man is a thief and a murderer and a bully, and Cohen doesn’t let the reader forget that. Yet there is also decency lurking in his designs, and an appealing sense of honor, enough to spark moments of admiration, even as he sits on the beach in Ipanema, stealing looks at his “$50,000 Patek Philippe 18K yellow-gold Genève wrist watch.”

“With Muñoz so fully drawn, it will be a pleasure to learn his fate.”

I believe this is the same person from Kirkus who reviewed “Frozen in Time”. And I would be almost certain that Kirkus will assign “End Game” to the same reviewer. I can almost guarantee that he or she will not be disappointed.

Tyler: Ted, so many questions are arising in my head from your talking about the creation of Muñoz. First, the reviewer refers to his having some sense of decency and honor in the first book. Does that change in the second and third books, and can you give us an example of some of Muñoz’s good points that help to make him a well-rounded and human villain?

Ted: Well, I have to walk a tightrope here because I don’t want to give away the story. But readers of Books I and II know from reading the Epilogue that Muñoz is apparently honoring the last request of his good friend, Lieutenant-Commander Cristian Barbudo, by looking after the commander’s wife, Maria. Ted Stone, after all, received a postcard from Maria, postmarked from Rio de Janeiro, wishing him a Happy New Year from them both. In Book II, readers learn that they are in Brazil with Maria’s two children and Maria’s mother. So the guy can’t be all that bad! [Laughter]

Unfortunately, we also have that little scene on the beach at Ipanema when the captain blows up at the poor waiter who accidentally spills a drink on him. So, Captain Muñoz is quite the complex individual. I think readers will find him an “interesting” personality.

Tyler: Another question I had while you were talking about Muñoz and his development relates to writing a Trilogy. I’ve written one myself but only intended to write one book like you. Only my story expanded so much in the middle that I broke my book into three so I was really writing all three books at once and did not publish them until all three were written. That allowed me to go back and forth among the books changing things and making them consistent and to create foreshadowing and consistent character development. Since you didn’t know you would write the two sequels, do you wish today you had planned it that way when you started out—would it have been easier in some ways to complete all three books before publishing them so you could adjust things? Is there anything in the first two books you would have changed in that case, or do you foresee coming out with revised versions at all to make changes, or are you satisfied with the books as they are?

Ted: You make good points! Frankly, I was amazed at how “Frozen in Time”had set the stage for Books II and III in terms of the “hooks” being there when I needed them. Perhaps this was, in part, because much of Book I was based on my real-life experiences and seemed to flow naturally to the page . . . together with the added fictional elements, of course. Maybe it was luck. But like you, I knew I could end up painting myself into a corner if I didn’t write Books II and III simultaneously. So, that’s what I did. “Unfinished Business” and “End Game”were written at the same time, and I bounced back and forth between them, injecting hooks into “Unfinished Business”that I need to reach back for at critical junctures in “End Game.”In this way, I could link the two books together―using material from “Frozen in Time,” as well―and ensure that everything within the Trilogy was consistent. And yes, I’m very satisfied with the way the books are written. I don’t think I’ve left too many things unanswered.

Tyler: Perhaps to ask the question another way, Ted, is there anything about the first book that you felt hampered you from creating other situations or scenarios you might have liked to create in the second and third books?

Ted: No. There never was a time in the writing of Books II and III that I said to myself, “Darn, if only I had done this, or if only I had done that.” My biggest fear was that Books II and III would have disconnects, and the way around that problem, as we both know, was to write them simultaneously with one another.

Tyler: The Pacific Book Review referred to your use of footnotes and maps and other sources as your “signature style.” We’ve talked previously about how these details make your books post-modern, but why do you think it’s important to provide such sources when you’re writing fiction rather than non-fiction?

Ted: Good question. In part, the incorporation of footnotes in my novels―and know that some reviewers have criticized me for using them―stems from my background as a scientist. I have written papers, essays, and proposals that required references to source material since the mid-1960s. So, in part, it’s habit and something I just can’t get away from. But there’s another reason I write this way, and that has to do with providing the “backstory” to my novels. “End Game” is the fifth novel I’ve written. All of these novels, in one way or another, are based on my real-life experiences. In any particular case, the real backstory is masked to a greater or lesser extent than in another case. For example, for legal reasons, the backstory in my novel “Death by Wall Street” is deeply buried. When writing about my personal experiences, I feel an obligation to say to the reader: “Look, you may think this is fiction, but you should know that there’s an element of truth here.” And by doing so, I think it adds a whole new dimension to the reader’s enjoyment of the story. Here he or she is, reading what ostensibly is a piece of fiction, yet knowing that lurking behind the novel is some fundamental, underlying truth drawn from real life . . . that some of the things described actually occurred, perhaps not exactly in the way they are portrayed in the book, but nevertheless, in a manner that might loosely parallel the story. If they dig into the footnotes―and again, everything in the footnotes is true―they’ll be able to judge for themselves just how close art imitates life.

Tyler: I for one would not use footnotes in my novels because I feel novels should teach and persuade through entertaining, but I can see your point, and in writing historical novels I think I’ve done something similar by providing what is perhaps more traditional in novels, a character list, specifying which characters are fictional and which are historical people who appear in my novels, such as Henry Ford or Theodore Roosevelt. Nevertheless, I still have readers ask me where my fictional characters lived and whether they were real. Sometimes I wonder how many general readers understand the difference between fiction and non-fiction. At the same time, I take it as a compliment when they think my characters were real people because then I’ve succeeded in creating a fictional world that feels real. Have you had similar experiences where readers seem confused by the line between fiction and non-fiction? Would you say you take pleasure in blurring that line, or are the footnotes and maps ways to distinguish where that line exists and that it’s important to keep that line clear?

Ted: Wow! That’s a difficult question to answer, and frankly, I never thought about it before. I love creating characters and lives for them. Sometimes I just play games in my mind where I’ll pick out a couple, say, at an airport who are talking or appear to be arguing about something, and I’ll create a “life” for them . . . give them names, think about what they are arguing about, what led up to it, what’s going through her mind, what’s going through his mind, what she is saying to him, how he is answering her, and so forth. I really need to get a life! [Laughter] Truth be told, I guess I do enjoy blurring the lines between truth and fiction . . . it’s sort of a game. My readers know they are reading a novel―it says so on the front cover―and I certainly am fair with them when I “come clean” both on the Copyright page as well as in the Preface regarding what’s real and what’s not. For example, here’s the note from the Copyright page of “End Game”:

“This book is a work of fiction. With the exception of the author and his wife, who appear under the names Ted and Susan Stone, as well as the characters known as Professor Ethan O’Mhaille, PhD, Grant Morris, PhD, and David Green, PhD—who are real persons but who are known by these names in this novel—characters with speaking parts are fictitious. Any resemblance they may have to persons living or dead is purely coincidental.”

This does not mean, however, that the characters might not have characteristics and traits of people I know or have met.

And I say much the same in the book’s Preface. As well, it doesn’t take much for the reader to determine that the information contained in the footnotes is true.

But your question goes to a deeper issue, if you will, Tyler. As you know from reading my books and from our discussions, the role deception plays in Nature, Man, and Life is a recurring theme in all of my books. So it shouldn’t come as a shock that the line between fiction and non-fiction might not get blurred a little in my books, should it? Okay, maybe more than a little. It’s something we live with every day of our lives.

Tyler: Do you have any tips for the writers out there about how to create effective or believable characters? Is it all about asking yourself these kinds of questions like you did with the couple in the airport?

Ted: That’s certainly one way . . . to put yourself in another person’s shoes, so to speak, and engage in a conversation or action. What would you say or do, under the circumstances you’ve created. Another technique is to take something from your life, embed it in the character, and nurture it. Take the embryonic sliver that you’re transplanted and incubate it, nurture it, and grow it into the person you want it to be, that he or she needs to be, to fulfill his or her destiny in the book. And don’t be surprised if as in real life, the person “grows” in the course of your writing the book or story. You may find, as I did, that at first, you’re very unhappy with a character . . . that the person just doesn’t quite fit the part or act in the way you really need him to. This was the problem I had with Captain Muñoz, at first. He was too nice a guy in my earlier drafts, and as such, the reader never would have believed him capable of doing what he did later in the Trilogy. Characters are like real people. They have personalities, lives . . . they evolve and grow . . . physically, intellectually, emotionally. You have to capture that, as required, so that whatever part they play will convince the reader that what they are reading is believable, albeit in a fictional world.

Tyler: Do you feel your readers appreciate such detail in the form of footnotes and other sources, or is it more for your own amusement? Do you have plans for digital versions of your books where all these website links can be used to enhance the reading experience?

Ted: Well, I didn’t put the references in for my amusement. And frankly, some readers and reviewers have told me they didn’t like all the footnotes. You never can please everyone! They’re there, as I’ve said, to provide the backstory. That said, however, let’s look at where book readership is going, Tyler. It’s no secret that more and more people are purchasing eReaders, whether they be Kindles, Nooks, iPads, or what have you. Furthermore, we are seeing a rapid “convergence” of technologies. All eReaders have Internet connectivity. At the least, you need to be able to download books from the Web. Now, think about books with footnotes in which you find URLs [Internet addresses. TT]. If you have Internet connectivity, all you would have to do, while you are reading one of my books, is click on the URL and voilá . . . you could be watching an orca pod attacking a seal on an iceberg or listening to a concert such as the one described in “End Game.” Now my eBook has “come alive.” So, in essence, eBooks derived from my novels push ePublishing to the limit. By the way, all of my novels are available in Kindle and Nook (EPUB) formats, and those with iPads can download a Kindle app that will allow them to read the Kindle versions.

Tyler: Well said, Ted. In reading your paper copies of your books, I don’t have any desire to run to my computer to look up the links—especially when the website addresses are long with complicated characters, but I have read digital books with links and frequently clicked for more information on them. It is an enhanced reading experience. So which is it, Ted. Would you rather read a paper book or a digital one, or does it maybe depend on the book?

Ted: Oh, Tyler . . . I love the smell of a new book. For me, it’s paper. My wife, on the other hand, is the gee-whiz-all-American-electronic-eBook-Queen! She loves her Kindle. She even has it linked to her cellular phone, and can pick up, in the book she’s reading, just where she left off when she switches from one device to the other. Every so often I get an e-mail message indicating that she’s purchased another book from Amazon―I gave her the Kindle as a gift together with a lifetime gift of books . . . you know, happy wife, happy life [laughter]―so when you count the votes in this family, you get 1-1.

Tyler: Of the three books in the Antarctic Killers Trilogy, would you say you have a favorite, or was one more difficult to write than the others?

Ted: I love them all. They are my children. Each, of course, presented unique problems. “Frozen in Time” was based largely on my personal experiences, and so, it came easily to mind and keyboard. There were times when I could lay down 5,000 to 6,000 words a day. “Unfinished Business” and “End Game” required some research, though I did a fair amount of research for “Frozen in Time” as well. But in Books II and III, I had some research to do regarding the Catholic Church, numismatics, general criminal activity, money laundering, and so forth, so Books II and III presented more of a challenge than did Book I.

Tyler: Our reviewer Richard Blake here at Reader Views seemed especially impressed with your ability to build suspense. Do you have any secrets or rules to make sure the suspense is high in your works?

Ted: Yes. I listen to my wife! [Laughter] Susan is the head of the community’s Mystery Book Club, and that woman knows mysteries and suspense. She is my toughest critic, and if I haven’t “turned up the heat” in the suspense department, I sure do hear about it when she gets ahold of my drafts! She’s not afraid to tell the emperor he has no clothes!

Tyler: It sounds like she’s your worst critic, and yet your best ally. As a scientist turned novelist, is it too obvious to say that being a novelist is more a hobby than a profession for you? Or do you see being a novelist as being equally as important as a scientist, perhaps in a different way?

Ted: It’s definitely an enjoyable avocation now. I have no illusions, however, of making my living as a novelist . . . at least not at this time. But I take writing very seriously, as I do everything on which I spend time. So, yes, when I write, I consider it just as important as anything else I’ve ever done.

Tyler: I guess I meant, do you think fiction is as important as science—is each as capable of changing the world for the better or worse, or expanding human understanding?

Ted: Good question . . . though I have a feeling you were making a point, Tyler. And I couldn’t agree with you more. I believe it’s possible to convey a variety of messages through the medium of fiction regarding the human condition, how it is today, and how it can be improved. Fiction can provide insights and, as you say, expand human understanding. And because there are no limits in fiction, you can take a story into areas where it might not otherwise be possible for you to do so. Fiction truly is a wonderful, robust medium.

Tyler: Ted, what do you feel sets you apart from other mystery and suspense writers today?

Ted: I think it’s the genre I’ve developed . . . the mixture of fiction and reality. Here’s what Gary Sorkin of Pacific Book Review said about “Frozen in Time”:

“Theodore Jerome Cohen wrote “Frozen in Time: Murder at the Bottom of the World”in a genre all of his own by combining fact with fiction, reality with storytelling, and history with adventure. This unique combination of writing is a style unto itself, simultaneously delivering exceptionally high entertainment value while providing immense educational insight.”

I don’t know too many authors who write novels in this way, but for what it’s worth, this is what my readers will find between the covers of my books.

Tyler: Thank you, Ted, for the interview today. As always, it’s been a pleasure. Before we go, will you remind us about your website and where we can get additional information about “End Game: Irrational Acts, Tragic Consequences, Book III in the Antarctic Murders Trilogy”

Ted: Tyler, it’s always a pleasure to talk with you. Readers can go to www.theodorecohennovels.com for more information on “End Game: Irrational Acts, Tragic Consequences” and my novels. Thanks for taking the time to chat this evening.

Tyler: Thank you, Ted, for the stimulating conversation. You make me want to get back to the keyboard to do some more writing of my own. Best of luck with writing and promoting your books.

Ted: And you, with your work and books, Tyler.